The Epic Debate of the Ages
Apr. 6th, 2009 12:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pendaMelissa and I had a discussion this weekend on a topic rarely discussed.
God vs. Aliens
Not kidding. Here's the basic argument from my side...
Four things:
1) The universe is so vast it's practically infinite from our puny perspective,
2) Our concept of reality doesn't even really take into account things like Dark Matter and the fact that relative weakness of gravity suggests that it's occurring on another plane and we're seeing it's shadow... thus, it could be even MORE vast,
3) We've discovered that life endures in seemingly impossible regions (like the bacteria living underground within the earth's crust near magma),
4) And even Bonobos have figured out how to use tools.
Given those four things, I think it's quite possible that we're not the only life in the universe and if there is life out there it is also quite possible that it's worked out how to use tools. As such, the possibility of alien visitation, while remote, isn't implausible.
Meanwhile, I think it's highly implausible that there is some bearded dude judging you, giving you a private cloud when you die, and being able to do anything but refusing to show his face in modern times (yeah yeah, burning bush... that happened thousands of years ago. Also... is a brush fire at a time when people were generally illiterate and lacked any way to record it the best he could do? Seriously, it looks kinda weak from where I stand.)
Generally the fall back position for theists (though not raised by Melissa) is "Well, if there is no god, where did everything come from?" The irony of that argument is that it assumes that a god has always existed and requires no explanation for where HE came from. Yet, for some reason the concept of a universe without beginning is too difficult to imagine.
Basically, I'm more likely to be abducted by aliens than to find myself face to face with a god in this or any other lives.
I won't paraphrase Melissa's argument because I don't want to get it wrong. But there you go, that was our Sunday afternoon discussion.
God vs. Aliens
Not kidding. Here's the basic argument from my side...
Four things:
1) The universe is so vast it's practically infinite from our puny perspective,
2) Our concept of reality doesn't even really take into account things like Dark Matter and the fact that relative weakness of gravity suggests that it's occurring on another plane and we're seeing it's shadow... thus, it could be even MORE vast,
3) We've discovered that life endures in seemingly impossible regions (like the bacteria living underground within the earth's crust near magma),
4) And even Bonobos have figured out how to use tools.
Given those four things, I think it's quite possible that we're not the only life in the universe and if there is life out there it is also quite possible that it's worked out how to use tools. As such, the possibility of alien visitation, while remote, isn't implausible.
Meanwhile, I think it's highly implausible that there is some bearded dude judging you, giving you a private cloud when you die, and being able to do anything but refusing to show his face in modern times (yeah yeah, burning bush... that happened thousands of years ago. Also... is a brush fire at a time when people were generally illiterate and lacked any way to record it the best he could do? Seriously, it looks kinda weak from where I stand.)
Generally the fall back position for theists (though not raised by Melissa) is "Well, if there is no god, where did everything come from?" The irony of that argument is that it assumes that a god has always existed and requires no explanation for where HE came from. Yet, for some reason the concept of a universe without beginning is too difficult to imagine.
Basically, I'm more likely to be abducted by aliens than to find myself face to face with a god in this or any other lives.
I won't paraphrase Melissa's argument because I don't want to get it wrong. But there you go, that was our Sunday afternoon discussion.
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no subject
Date: 2009-04-07 04:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-07 04:33 pm (UTC)One thought in the line of reasoning that it is entirely cyclic is that the universe is just one side of the coin, at the end of this cycle we get a big crunch and another big bang where in some manner matter and energy are reversed, a negative-universe. Purely speculation and wishful thinking as the others with no evidence, but a fun thought experiment.
On the other hand, it's possible that our universe might simply expand forever. Continue expanding until everything is stretched so far apart that the temperature across all of space is an infinitesimally small fraction above absolute zero. While that might not tell us much about the beginning, it is certainly a lackluster "end".